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Post by St. Louis Cardinals (Andrew) on Apr 30, 2013 19:00:54 GMT -5
I know everyone has their own opinion of tanking but I haven't seen anyone that is tanking by my interpretation. Teams have chosen to go the prospect path which I totally understand and have no problems with. I don't see that as tanking but understand other opinions.
I am with D'backs, if I were Marlins I'd have my MLB roster filled with the closest to MLB spects so that I can have more guys on my MiLB roster. If I had an extra 20 slots I could easily fll them with project players.
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Apr 30, 2013 19:20:15 GMT -5
This point is actually like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. We allowed Marlins to trade away ALL MLB players, we can’t now complain that he doesn’t have a MLB roster. He’s not the first and won’t be the last. It’s a little bit late to change the rules now. I understand the league let Marlins strip his team down to nothing. But that's not the point. Nobody's saying he must field a competitive team, but for godsakes there's players with MLB playing time who've been released he can pick up and pay the same as he's paying an empty slot. I'd rather play a team of scrubs then have an empty team with 3 base hits all year. I'd guarantee if I spent a day, besides the players I already have listed I could compile a team of scrubs who have a decent amount of PT this year and atleast make it appear that I'm trying. Question. If I signed in to Proboards & ESPN everyday and stopped making any moves for my team and stopped setting lineups would I be classed as a delinquent manager or a savvy manager like Marlins? |
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Apr 30, 2013 19:26:49 GMT -5
applause to the Cards. Like I said I think it would be wise of him to try to buy low on some guys to put on his MLB roster but if he thinks the tradeoff is worth the #1 overall so be it I say.He doesn't even have to buy low....there's unowned players who are getting a run out there every couple days. Tweaking the roster size or adding slg% would be a mild bump in the road for teams that didn't plan for that, switching that up on the Marlins would really be a sucker punch and would negate everything he has done since he took over the team. As Cards says the rules aren't perfect but they are pretty good I think for the milb/MLB players at least.
Angels used loopholes (which we fixed) and he won a championship. Then his players got old fast and his team crumbled and he quit the league. Marlins is working to make his team a powerhouse years down the road and that is commendable to me and vastly different than some of the stunts Angels pulled. Marlins is a quality owner and has worked within all of the rules.I love building teams from the ground up and have said so numerous times. Marlins is doing it the right way (young), and I'm not questioning him being a good manager. But if this non-existent roster continues into the 2014 season for him, I'd have a serious problem with consecutive years of nonsense. |
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Post by St. Louis Cardinals (Andrew) on Apr 30, 2013 19:48:25 GMT -5
I do agree that I would have a problem if his roster is still empty by 2014.
I would expect that he should be integrating players as they are called up. He should currently have Arenado, Cingrani anf Fujikawa on his MLB roster and by the end of THIS year I would expect to see others like Singleton, Marisnick, Lee, Odorizzi & Zunino promoted in real life and therefore promoted onto his MLB roster.
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Post by BrewCrewGM on Apr 30, 2013 20:08:40 GMT -5
Marlins is building for the future, which is fine, but he's tanking to make sure he gets the #1 overall pick. He's not making an effort at all to compete because if he did it would decrease his chance to get the #1 pick. That's why his MLB roster is essentially blank.
I even remember him saying in a trade that he posted or in the chatbox that he was getting rid of all of his MLB players to make sure that he'd get the #1 pick.
I mean, take Reds, for example. He's a rebuilding team just like the Marlins but he's at least making an effort to field an MLB team with a decent number of starters on it. He's trying to compete, instead of blatantly tanking.
You all can interpret it however you like, but there's no doubt in my mind that he is tanking. It's one thing to have an MLB roster full of bench warmers and utility guys and maybe a starter here & there, but it's another to have a blank one. He really couldn't make it more obvious that he's tanking.
Pretty sad that he's going to get away with it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 20:19:05 GMT -5
Honest question here, I haven't really researched the draft much but is the a clear #1? A Harper or Strasburg type? I can see tanking to get one of those guys but most years the #1 overall is not a lock.
Also Hochevar has a real problem with you Dbacks, crossing him out and leaving Tim Beckham not crossed out.
I do see the point though. Marlins is on vacation, I think asking him to promote obvious players like Arendando should be done, the good news will be it will vacate a milb roster spot for him to claim a guy.
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Post by BrewCrewGM on Apr 30, 2013 20:22:04 GMT -5
To me it doesn't matter if it's a strong draft or not. Tanking just shouldn't be allowed.
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Apr 30, 2013 20:37:00 GMT -5
I do see the point though. Marlins is on vacation, I think asking him to promote obvious players like Arendando should be done, the good news will be it will vacate a milb roster spot for him to claim a guy. I'm not in favour of telling a manager who to promote or encouraging particular promotions. I'm more disappointed there was no attempt to fill roster spots, when its a little leg work or watching the Released Players thread to fill holes. |
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Post by St. Louis Cardinals (Andrew) on Apr 30, 2013 20:56:01 GMT -5
I know ... i was shocked it took four days for anyone (me) to bid on Travis Blackley. Now, Clayton Kershaw he's not but there are teams that should be trying to add this guy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 20:59:51 GMT -5
Call it whatever you want, but my strategy is within the rules of the league. I let my intentions be known before I traded away a single player and no one opposed it at the time. As for 2014, I plan to have all of my MiLB players that have exceeded IP/AB limits on my roster. I can't say that I'll go out of my way to acquire major leaguers, but guys like Cingrani, Peralta, arenado, and whoever else gets called up soon will be up. Therefore I don't expect to be in the running for the 2014 top pick.
If the league were to vote on and pass a rule change to prohibit the strategy that I've used, I would be fine with it.
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Post by St. Louis Cardinals (Andrew) on Apr 30, 2013 21:04:51 GMT -5
It wouldn't be fair to change the rules after specifically giving you permission to do what you have done. You asked for permission and it was granted.
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Apr 30, 2013 21:13:50 GMT -5
Call it whatever you want, but my strategy is within the rules of the league. I let my intentions be known before I traded away a single player and no one opposed it at the time. As for 2014, I plan to have all of my MiLB players that have exceeded IP/AB limits on my roster. I can't say that I'll go out of my way to acquire major leaguers, but guys like Cingrani, Peralta, arenado, and whoever else gets called up soon will be up. Therefore I don't expect to be in the running for the 2014 top pick. If the league were to vote on and pass a rule change to prohibit the strategy that I've used, I would be fine with it. Sneaky..... As for 2014, I plan to have all of my MiLB players that have exceeded IP/AB limits on my roster.I'd like to know the reasoning for not attempting to pick any released players who have MLB playing time this year up? Or not to do a little leg work and find players who have a decent amount of playing time under the belts to fill roster spots. |
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Apr 30, 2013 21:16:24 GMT -5
It wouldn't be fair to change the rules after specifically giving you permission to do what you have done. You asked for permission and it was granted. I don't think its fair to change the rules either. But I'll say this, either he's been given league permission to tank, or he's lazy. There really isn't another option. |
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Post by BrewCrewGM on Apr 30, 2013 21:55:21 GMT -5
"But I'll say this, either he's been given league permission to tank, or he's lazy. There really isn't another option."
He's too active for it to be the latter.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 8:07:37 GMT -5
I'm sure that I could spend the time to look for major league guys, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of going for top pick.
I essentially found a loophole in the existing rules, and the teams running the league accepted my intentions. Tanking would be not playing my mlb players. I essentially shifted my assets to my MiLB team. Which is merely a manipulation of the rules, which if other owners didn't approve, I wouldn't have done.
And part of my lack of picking up project players and released players is my lack of free time. I have an easy time logging in very frequently from my phone and checking my messages and recent threads between whatever else I'm doing, but I don't have hours of free time to be looking for and picking up tons of guys. I work a full time job and I'm an aspiring poker player who plays as often as I can. I love fantasy baseball and this league, but im really just kind of playing the waiting game now. I'll be making some trades now and again, but my players need more MiLB seasoning.
(Btw, I'm sitting inside Macarran intl. airport in Las Vegas waiting for my flight as I write this. And I won about $3,000 playing poker here over the last 3 days)
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 8:23:38 GMT -5
Nice payday. A thou a day... get out of fantasy baseball and turn pro immediately.
Still, we don't think your strategy here is in harmony with how a league should be administered. If everyone followed your technique, the league would dissolve. There has to be some sort of legit alternative to this that protects the league from tanking owners; othwerwise, when other owners go your route, we face chaos. Potentially, three or four clubs doing this would set weekly match-ups into turmoil. Teams matched up with other such clubs would be sloughing off points and scoring would be a joke.
We know it was "approved," but it appears to be a flawed policy and not a sound way to run a league.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 15:37:19 GMT -5
Something to think about over the winter...
Why not institute a draft lottery, with the bottom ten clubs entered and getting a random pick based on some sort of arbitrary draft order -- kinda like the pick order of a yearly roto league?
That way no one purposefully tanks to get the top pick or two.
The idea being everyone should go all out to win every game or sffer the consequence of maybe not getting to pick until perhaps #10. We favor this idea very much. The bottom teams should be trying to win as much as the top clubs.
If teams don't try to win, the results of the schedule (of who gets to play these tanking teams) can get very crazy.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 15:42:21 GMT -5
I never thought about that but I agree. I'm all for a lottery.
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Post by BrewCrewGM on May 6, 2013 16:18:21 GMT -5
I'd go for a lottery.
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Post by Dodgers GM on May 6, 2013 16:51:27 GMT -5
I think that would be a fair way to do it.
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