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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Oct 4, 2014 11:06:04 GMT -5
I know we've discussed what players fall under IFA money and what players fall under using cap money and sometimes it gets a little messy with questions. But Ken (Rays) mentioned something about determining whether the player being bid on should fall into the IFA or cap bid being determined by whether or not the player is or isn't on the team's 40 man roster. (if I remember correctly)
Just wondering if this would solve debates over what monies are used in bidding on particular players. If the idea holds merit, I believe it would be advantageous in implementing it it into the Rules to have distinct guidelines.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 0:04:51 GMT -5
Chris, you are correct. To me it would be simple enough to make this a black and white situation rather then grey. If a player is signed to a Major League Contract they are placed on the 40 man roster and should be bid on with TPB Cap(Puig, Cespedes, & Tanaka). Minor league contracts bid with IFA cap. I don't see the problem here unless it's the minor league player previously bought with TBC cap and those could just be absorbed into the team.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 10:16:08 GMT -5
Seems to me the distinction is pretty much Cuban/Japanese defectors get TPB cap and everyone else (usually, I suspect, <18 y.o.) gets IFA$$. Perhaps the distinction should be age?
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Post by Arizona Diamondbacks on Oct 5, 2014 12:09:22 GMT -5
I'm fine with the 40 man roster being the determinant.
I don't understand what you mean about TPB contracts being absorbed into the team.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 16:34:55 GMT -5
The simplest way to do this is if when the team signs the player and the player counts against their bonus pool then we bid with IFA money. If the player doesn't count against their bonus pool then we bid with real cap. In the situation of a player who was bid on real cap and then dropped, he should either be bid with IFA money or bid with real cap with the option to buy him out with IFA money.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:18:54 GMT -5
I'm fine with the 40 man roster being the determinant. I don't understand what you mean about TPB contracts being absorbed into the team. Poor choice of words on my part. Why not just drop the TPB $ on previously winning bids of International players that signed a minor league deal (Ex.Ronald Guzman ) before the change to IFA $ and incorporate the change (if everyone agrees or however it determined) into the rules. So that way no one has $TPB tied up on minor league IFA, meaning everyone is on equal ground to start the simpler way of determining IFA status. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 21:04:26 GMT -5
The system that is in place right now is fine. The system that should change is what happens when you drop a IFA player who had a TPB contract.
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Post by Arizona Diamondbacks on Oct 7, 2014 19:46:48 GMT -5
I think it's absurd to suggest just ignoring former TPB contracts. Most owners were sensible and didn't tie up ludicrous amounts of money in 16 yr olds so why reward owners who were fiscally irresponsible. And I'm not saying everyone who had players signed to 5M+ contacts were irresponsible but there certainly was a lot of poor planning.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 19:49:07 GMT -5
Agree 100 percent with what Tim says and the lms were even generous to allow those redicolous contracts to get bought out.
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Post by St. Louis Cardinals (Andrew) on Oct 7, 2014 20:53:12 GMT -5
I think it's absurd to suggest just ignoring former TPB contracts. Most owners were sensible and didn't tie up ludicrous amounts of money in 16 yr olds so why reward owners who were fiscally irresponsible. And I'm not saying everyone who had players signed to 5M+ contacts were irresponsible but there certainly was a lot of poor planning. Yeah, I am with Tim on this one too. I think we have been more than generous in looking after those who have made excessive bids for IFA players. We went to the extent of allowing those contracts to be bought out with IFA money and are about to hand out (January 1st) another $6-10M IFA cash to each team so they can buy out contracts with that if they wish. Can't have your cake and eat it too ... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 21:22:09 GMT -5
I think it's absurd to suggest just ignoring former TPB contracts. Most owners were sensible and didn't tie up ludicrous amounts of money in 16 yr olds so why reward owners who were fiscally irresponsible. And I'm not saying everyone who had players signed to 5M+ contacts were irresponsible but there certainly was a lot of poor planning. I think it's just as absurd to change the system of acquiring IFA and leave some players in the old system. Make a decision on whether or not to force a buyout or release the player or however you wish to handle it. But do something to eliminate TPB dollars on what would now be IFA players so situations like Ronald Guzman don't happen again. Maybe, I'm making this more complicated then it is but the reason I thought the TPB money for IFA's was a thing of the past is because several players from the dissolved Rays & Twins teams had TBP money attached to them that didn't carryover to our draft pool. As to Chris's main point of this thread I still advocate using minor league contract vs major league contract to differentiate between players. |
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Oct 8, 2014 21:43:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure how many other kids are still tied up in TPB contracts, but I don't think it's many at all.
The TPB money attached didn't carry over to your draft pool as a courtesy to new managers not being saddled with anchor contracts.
I just brought your point up to see if there was merit in looking at a system like that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 22:02:41 GMT -5
I just looked at MLML and there aren't very many and most are 1-2M, a couple 4M or so. So as they buy them out there will be less and less until they're gone the new IFA system will be the only one in place or the non major league contracts 16-17 year outs.
Is there anywhere all this activity is archived or is the old deleted when recorded?
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Post by Cincinnati Reds - Chris on Oct 8, 2014 22:06:01 GMT -5
Archived buyouts?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 14:27:54 GMT -5
I was referring to all bidding activity, but it wouldn't be important since they are recorded and stay with their team until they are moved. Then they will be claimed, bid on again or become FA.
I think I asked this before I found out why our MiLB with TPB weren't carried over.
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Post by Arizona Diamondbacks on Oct 9, 2014 22:51:19 GMT -5
I'm still pretty convinced there are a sizable number of IFA guys who were bid on using TPB contracts before the IFA cap system was put in place.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 1:48:12 GMT -5
Acosta, Enrique SS/CHC - SEA - 1M TPB Contract 7/14/2014
Adrianza, Ehire 2B/SF - CIN - 500k TPB Contract <1>
Almonte, Jose OF/TEX - SF - 4M TPB Contract
Alvarez, Dariel OF/BAL - OAK - 2M TPB Contract
Bello, Yenier C/ATL - CIN - 2M TPB Contract
Abrera, Gustavo OF/SF - BOS - 2M TPB
Carbonell, Daniel OF/SF - LAA - 3M TPB Contract 6/16/2014
Cardona, Adonys RHP/TOR - MIL - 3M TPB ContractContract
Devers, Rafael 3B/BOS - BOS - 4M TPB Contract
Diaz, Yandy 3B/CLE - BOS - 1M TPB Contract 9/9/2014
Franco, Anderson 3B/WAS - LAA - 2M TPB Contract
Franco, Wander 3B/HOU - CIN - 1M TPB Contract 6/7/2014
Germen, Gonzalez RHP/NYM - SEA - 1M TPB Contract 7/10/2014
Gonzalez, Miguel Alfredo RHP/PHI - CWS - 3M TPB Contract 7/30/2014
Herrera, Carlos SS/COL - ATL - 2M TPB Contract
Herrera, Jose C/ARI - MIA - 2M TPB Contract
Hinojosa, Dalier P/BOS - CHC - 4M TPB Contract
Isabel, Ibandel OF/LAD - MIA - 2M TPB Contract
Leon, Julian C/LAD - MIL - 2M TPB Contract 7/11/2014
Matute, Jonathan SS/HOU - ATL - 2M TPB Contract
Molina, Leandro OF/NYY - MIA - 4M TPB Contract
Silva, Mauricio P/MIN - CHC - 3M TPB Contrac
Tapia, Roni 3B/MIN - CHC - 2M TPB Contract
Tirado, Lucas SS/LAD - NYY - 2M TPB Contract 10/14/2013
Tocci, Carlos OF/PHI - BAL - 3M TPB Contract
Tseng, Jen-Ho RHP/CHC - OAK - 4M TPB Contract
Zapata, Maikel OF/CWS - MIA - 8M TPB Contract
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